Join the Debate

Ξ February 10th, 2010 | → 1 Comments | ∇ 90041, Drinks, Oxy |

A long dispute means both parties are wrong. – Voltaire

In case you don’t keep up on the comments section of the blog, we’ve entered into a spirited debate with Eagle Rock resident Mo Oxford over our Sunday article on the ongoing tensions between Occidental College students and their neighbors.  Too often, internet arguments digress into name calling, self-righteousness, and personal attacks.  It has been refreshing over the last twenty four hours to engage in a debate that actually became more civilized instead of less.  We edited some of Ms. Oxford’s comments, for reasons we explain below, but what we would most like to know is what do you think?

The “sinister innuendo” you talk about in reference to the tragic death of a student was neither sinister or innuendo.  It was fact.  The student needlessly died in a hazing incident.  Yes, it was a single car accident and no, at the time of the accident there was no alcohol involved.  Here’s what was involved:  [Removed by YORKBLVD - See Below] The activities were illegal, the fraternity was already on probation for a number of violations, and was forbidden from conducting pledge activities…and they did it anyway, and a young man died.  I do find that to be more than just a tragic accident.  And the true tragedy was that the members of the fraternity learned nothing from it, because they continued to conduct unapproved pledging and hazing activities, which is what ultimately caused them to be banned from the school and kicked out of the national.

While I think most of us living near the college expect, and are tolerant of, more noise than one would expect in a non-college area, asking us to put up with out of control parties and noise is unreasonable.  I don’t like cleaning up vomit in my yard, or repairing damages to my home, car or landscaping, or cleaning up the broken glass in the street or the sidewalk — or being kept up until three in the morning when I have to be at work in a few hours.  And I’ve done all of those things more times than I can count.

I do agree that those behaviors are a criminal nuisance.  And yes, it would have been easier to move — and our community has lost some good neighbors who did exactly that.  I just didn’t feel like giving in to being bullied out of my home by a bunch of young people who behaved badly.  And, thankfully, those students are the minority of the Oxy student population.

And the college has stepped up.  They are now imposing the student code of conduct on off-campus behaviors as well as on-campus conduct.  They are trying to have more parties on campus.  The biggest problem is that the college can’t break the law, either, by allowing the underage students to drink.  And, unfortunately, most of the student population is underage.

My article was not “somewhat accurate” — it was accurate.  Thanks, at least, for supporting the idea that people have a right to live in their homes without having to tolerate criminal nuisances.


And I forgot to mention…while I used to work at Oxy (and loved working there — it still feels like a second home!), I no longer work for Occidental College and haven’t for a few years.  Also, contrary to what someone posted here in response to an earlier blog, I also don’t live in college owned housing and never have.


Hi Ms. Oxford, Thank you for posting.  We’ve removed the specifics of the accident because this is a subject that is very sensitive to us.  I think we both can agree that the young man’s death was terrible.  However, we think that human life, and the others who were seriously injured in the accident, trump both your understandable anger at your neighbors, and our desire to write a blog article.  This is why I’ve decided to remove the specifics of the incident.  Fraternity “hazing” conjures images of forced binge drinking, which was not the issue on that night. While I’m sure all involved would certainly make different choices if they could turn back the clock, we’re uncomfortable with a dead young man being used to make a point about neighbor relations.

Nevertheless, my central argument here is that the more the school cracks down on alcohol consumption (which is really what’s at the heart of this rowdy behavior), the more it will inevitably be pushed off campus.  Maybe the school can push it away from your front yard, but it will simply end up in someone else’s.  I am arguing that the school should focus on providing an environment on campus that will allow students, whose drinking is inevitable, to be rowdy where neighbors don’t have to deal with screaming, vomit, and drunk driving.  Thanks for reading!

You are missing the point.  Why in the world would you classify the rowdyiness and vomiting, never mind the drunk driving, as “inevitable”?  When did it become not only acceptable, desirable, and “inevitable” that some students would have to drink to the point of extreme inebriation?  The idea is not to push the problem to someone else’s yard, it is to solve it. I’m a mother, and a grandmother, and I can assure you, neighborhood relations are not the only things that concern me — or many of my neighbors.  And for the very reasons you mention — people’s lives and safety. The solution is definitely not to provide a place at the school or anywhere else where the “inevitable” excessive drinking can take place.  It is to work towards changing the attitude that it IS acceptable — that there is anything desirable and wonderful about being so drunk that you are vomiting.  And hazing is hazing; it is illegal and in this case, while that night (emphasis on that night) there was no forced binge drinking, it was still hazing — illegal, and prohibited by the school and the national, and everyone involved was well aware of the prohibition.  If you know anything at all about that fraternity, and you apparently do, you and I both know that this was not an isolated or even, necessarily, typical hazing for the fraternity.  There were others that were much worse.

Mo Oxford

Ms. Oxford,  it seems that ultimately we both want the same thing: A safer environment for students and a quieter neighborhood for the surrounding community.  Where we seem to differ is in our opinion of what a realistic solution is to the problem.  We don’t think that any amount of complaining by the neighbors, or any tightening of restrictions by the college, will eliminate alcohol abuse among young people.  Simply look at the school’s drug policy for proof.  Drugs are just as readily available at Oxy as at any other college (and Eagle Rock in general) yet the campus obviously doesn’t allow it.  Why would cracking down on alcohol be more effective given it’s more readily available, cheaper, more socially acceptable, and legal by the time most students are Juniors?

Therefore we have to disagree with your assertion that we’re “missing the point” if the point is that enough punishment and regulation will eliminate a problem that has existed since Noah drank himself unconscious in Genesis 9.  Alcohol abuse and drinking are inevitable precisely because they’ve always been inevitable.  It’s not something to celebrate, but it seems at least to me, a foreseeable consequence of sharing the neighborhood with 1,800 young people hell-bent on blowing off steam every weekend.

We do seem to want the same things, and I appreciate your points and the thought and consideration you’ve obviously put into these issues. My last comments on this (here, anyway, :-): It’s a disservice to the majority of the Oxy students to claim inevitability of alcohol abuse (and/or drug use). The majority of the students are not drinking themselves into oblivion hell bent on blowing off steam every weekend. That truly is a minority of the students. The college, by law, has to agree to enforce the law if they want to get the federal aid that helps so many students attending college. The college can’t just turn a blind eye and allow underage drinking if they want the federal funds to keep flowing. Punishment and regulation alone aren’t enough, but combined with education, information and assistance where needed, the process can certainly make a dent in it. And, maybe, long term, impact enough young people to change the attitude that it is desirable and inevitable.

Mo Oxford

Ultimately, we’ll leave this with one last point as our significant others would find it out of character if we didn’t insist on having the last word.  Of course the majority of students at Occidental aren’t drinking themselves silly every weekend.  Still, even if its only 10%, that equates to 180 students concentrated in a small area who can cause serious problems for neighbors.  Education is a wonderful route to take in theory, but the current generation of students has been educated since grade school (who remembers D.A.R.E.?) on the health effects of drinking and substance abuse, and still they choose to experiment.  Until Occidental accepts the reality of alcohol consumption among its student body, no amount of disciplinary hearings or guest speakers will solve a problem that is prevalent not only at almost every university across the nation, but in every neighborhood where you have a high concentration of young people.  Youth may be wasted on the young, but sometimes experience is the only way to educate someone.


Eagle Rock Brewery’s Revolution XPA

Ξ February 4th, 2010 | → Comments Off | ∇ 90065, Drinks, Glassell Park |

Revolution XPA

Revolution XPA

In the third of Eagle Rock Brewery’s Marxist-themed brews, we finally got our chubby little fingers on a few pints of the Extra Pale Ale last weekend at the York.  We’ve been a little disappointed with ERB’s early products, but were excited to sit down and have our palettes hopped into next week.  Revolution wasn’t what we were expecting; It wasn’t bad, but it threw us a bit of a curve that we needed to adjust to.  Instead of dry and hoppy, the most accurate word I can use to describe its taste is “sweet”.  If I didn’t know better, I would swear they had mixed some cider into my beer as I just couldn’t get past the flavor of apples.  Revolution isn’t a bad beer, it just seems atypical for the style.

To get an idea of the father and son duo who are tackling the historic task of being Los Angeles’ only brewery, enjoy this spot in the Times’ Brand X (I assume because it’s xtreme) blog.


This Week in Northeast Food

Ξ January 28th, 2010 | → Comments Off | ∇ 90041, 90065, Drinks, Food, Glassell Park |

Jonathan Gold tries Cacao, kinda likes the food, and really likes their Hecho in Eagle Rock shirts.  I wonder where they got the idea to steal that from Mexico from

The LA Times interviews Steven and Jeremy Raub, owners of Eagle Rock Brewery, whose three brews are saturating the Northeast.  I’ll finally be sampling the Revolution XPA tonight.  I should have that review up by Easter.


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